Thanks, Wendy, for the superb link on becoming "web dead"!
My favorite part of the article, and a lesson for us all: "...Search for Dead Addict's real name, which he declines to reveal, and he says you'll find a digital non-person: Other than a single forum comment he wrote some 13 years ago, the name offers no results. That anonymity comes from careful attention: Dead Addict has never blogged or created a social networking profile with his real name. Even his business cards carry only his first name and middle initial. "Fifteen years of keeping distinct identities takes a lot of work," he says..." Yep, living the HTBI life can be a pain in the butt aometimes, but worth it in the long run!
The Reputation Defender service looks like an interesting option, too. Has anyone here tried it?
Here is a link to a company in California that sells the GPS Jammer. They are supposed to have it on site so it should not raise any flags if you order it.
URL #1: http://www.davidsteele.com/gps-jammer.html
Hugh, , Age: 53
Very strange. It appears you could therefore still be tracked by your cell phone.
Here's an article about substantially diminishing your internet presence, if you have one on sites like Facebook, MySpace, etc. It also tells you how to get negative content about you off the internet. This is a good article for those of you who are just starting your privacy efforts and have a strong presence on social networking sites or want to get your kids off of them or want to remove other embarrassing content.
URL #1: http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/06/disappear-online-facebook-tech-personal-cx_ag_0307disappear.html
Wendy, , Age: 44
Website to purchase GPS Tracker Defense device.
Many thanks for the advice and information.
URL #1: http://www.trackershack.co.uk/gps-tracker-defence-240-p.asp
Gary, , Age: 40
I'm starting a new enterprise and want to have business cards printed. they will not have any mailing or other address on them; just a toll free number, email address and website address (with the same, limited contact information). The business is an LLC registered by a nominee (at an address in another part of the state and has the name of a NMLLC as its initial member listed) and I'm using an assumed name registered to the LLC under which to do business on the card, not the actual registered entity's name. Doing that makes the business more difficult to locate in public records.
Since I'm taking all these privacy steps, does it make sense to leave my name off the cards or us my first initial and last name only? I want the cards to look professional so I'll be taken seriously but I want to maintain as much of my privacy as possible without appearing to be running from the law or something. Since my "public" address (the one on my license, registration and credit reports) is in another state and I reveal little info about my physical address to most people, would putting my name on such a generic business card cause problems? Thanks.
I assume the name you use on this website is not your true name, so the following is just an example. Suppose your name is Judy Clarke. You could use Judy Larke or Judy Starke.
the website proquo.com is a one-stop place to opt out of junkmail,telemarketing,some online databases, etc. they don't sell your info either. very convenient...
mike, , Age: 37
Just came across this "Top 50" Famous French Quote:
Pour vivre heureux, vivons caché.
"If you want to live happy, live hidden."
URL #1: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7477/50_famous_french_quotations.html?page=4
To #4127/Jeff... Why bother with a letter writing campaign? Pick up the phone and call your local television stations (perhaps you have a "Channel X On Your Side" segment producer?). Tell them what's going on. Local news stations love these kinds of stories.
We recently had a spate of them in Columbus, Ohio, when it became known that you could visit the municipal clerk of courts office and just randomly enter social security numbers until you found one that worked, and up came someone's file. While your issue appears to be image based (i.e. you'd need to scan document images to find SSNs, reversing the approach), the appeal to the media is the same.
While I'm not familiar with Tennessee law, my guess is that the record disclosures on local government websites there are made in accordance with the state's public records law, and it is almost certainly already unlawful for a public office there to disclose a social security number that appears on a public record under ordinary circumstances, i.e. the public official who runs the site in question probably has a genuine legal issue to resolve.
Honestly, I thought this disclosure of SSN stuff on local government websites was pretty much covered already. I'm surprised.
URL #1: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/07/24/tyack.html
From Gizmodo, an article about a device for your car that can "block all GPS transmissions for a range of 5 meters". Of interest to the HTBI group because it actually makes your car invisible to satellites. There's a lot of valuable information in the comments following the article, including the suggestion that the device would also block attempts to track or bug your cellphone (another hot HTBI topic).
URL #1: http://gizmodo.com/383011/gps-tracker-defense-hides-your-global-position
Jay, , Age: 51
I've attempted to inquire as a "non-resident" using vehicles in the state of Oregon. They were very clear that unless one is a "resident" and can prove such with utility bills, statements, etc., you may not register a vehicle in the state of Oregon or obtain an Oregon driver lic. My issue was registering a car in an LLC with an Alaska or Canary Island address since it will be there most of the time. Unfortunately, the DMV has stated that there are no exceptions to non residents getting a car registered in Oregon.
Phil, , Age: 44
Jeff, this issue has come up around the country, and many people are working to put a stop to it. You may be able to make a difference in Tenn. Here's what I would do:
Do a google search around terms like "social security number" and "county property records" . Throw in "redacted" in one of your searches. You should be able to find media coverage of how this has been handled in other states.
For example, a few years ago, counties in Florida started doing the same thing. When a few people posted images of Jeb Bush's SSN and Porter Goss's SSN (he was CIA director at the time), county officials sat up and took notice. They quickly removed SSNs from the websites. Once you have those news media stories saved as links on your computer, your next step is to write to your county commissioners....every one of them, and tell them how you feel about the county making identity easy for criminals. Refer to the news media stories and send them the links (if you're emailing).
One more thing that could be powerful, if you it respectfully; look up your commissioners' home addresses on zabasearch.com, then go to the records database and see if THEIR SSNs are online. If so, point out that they, too, are vulnerable.
Keep in mind that your letter will probably be public information. So you need to decide if that's for you. You could of course send an anonymous letter with info showing that the county officials are vulnerable. But you give them a better reason to act when you show that a constituent is being harmed.
If you hear nothing after three weeks, you could contact a local newspaper. But keep in mind that your desire for privacy may clash with the newspaper's goals. When the story is "local man fights to protect his identity on county website", they're going to want to identify that local man.
I hope you will take at least some of these actions, because if you are successful in your county, you strengthen the privacy rights of all of us.
I ran into a similar issue in Washington. The Department of Licensing required a Washington address upon initial vehicle registration. However, it was not meant to serve as proof of in-state residence of me or of the LLC. It was simply a requirement of their computer system--even though state law dictates that vehicles with no ties to the state must be registered if they remain in the state for an extended duration, the computer system nonetheless couldn't process a registration without a Washington address. So I gave them a Washington address where the car was known to be at some times. I also took care to make sure that my out-of-state ghost address was specified as the mailing address. Then, several months later, I used the DOL's Web site to update the physical address to match the ghost address (the software on the Web site is obviously newer than that used for processing new registrations). The vehicle now has no Washington address in its registration record.
I suggest you do something similar. Don't provide a name or show any personal ID when registering the vehicle. (If they resist, explain that you are simply a representative of the LLC and that the LLC does not want your name to be associated with the vehicle registration in any way. If they insist, tell them you left your ID outside, go home, then explain the situation to a friend and have him or her do the registration instead, the next day at a different office.) Tell them you are registering an out-of-state company's car. For the physical Oregon address they require, provide the address of a place where the car has been or will be on occasion (a local hotel, eatery, library, etc.). Make sure your ghost address is specified as the mailing address so registration materials can get to you. After a few months, either use the DMV's Web site or phone them to update the registration information to reflect only your out-of-state ghost address.
Josh, , Age: 35
I've been hitting a road block in registering my
vehicles using an address from the Canary Islands or
Alaska. In OR, they require that you provide an
Oregon address proving residence for you or your LLC.
You can not use a P.O. Box or a forwarding service.
If it's not your real address, there could be a stiff
penalty. I think it's because of the lack of a state
sales tax in OR. I told them that although I or my
LLC have a PPB in a foreign state or country, the
vehicles would remain and be used in OR most of the
year. Didn't seem to matter. MUST have an Oregon
address.
Have you or any of your Oregon readers encountered this? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Perhaps a non-resident friend could check this out for you. (In some states, they will not even ask you for ID. They will merely hand you a form to sign, that states you are not a resident.) In fact, would you consider having a non-resident friend take over your LLC for a "period of time," long enough to get the plates?
Both my wife's and my SSN are freely viewable with no registration required on a county tax website, right under our signatures no less. They are on copies of a security deed for a mortgage we obtained years ago. The mortgage has long been satisfied, but the documents remain. Is there anything we can do about this?
Jeff, , Age:
We recently bought a remote cabin. It is just beyond the range of a cell phone tower. Is there any sort of special aerial that might help?
URL #1: http://www.digitalantenna.com/prods/cellbooster_DA4000_directconnectamplifier.html
James, , Age: 67
... In your case, I found a cell phone booster in the May issue of SEA Magazine, page 48. (I inserted the URL in the link, below.)
I wanted to thank Marcus (#528) for his post about the Sandisk USB drive he wrote about quite awhile ago... I have a regular one but I also travel a lot and have the same problem (airport security). I just picked up a 2GB one off Amazon for under $30; the 1GB one he had is now $15. Highly recommended!
URL #1: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EWI8IK
Shannon, , Age: 26
Did you know that many states require you to pay sales tax for sales over the internet that are not collected at the time of sale? Reporting a zero on your state tax return can trigger a state audit. Things should not be so complicated that you don't even know when you're doing something wrong. I now have to refile the past 5 years of tax returns. My question is this: How does all this privacy activity look to a tax auditor? It can make you life very complicated in this case. I am having second thoughts about all this now.
Bert, , Age: 43
I read a previous post on here last month and checked out the accompanying link about FTA (Free-To-Air) Satellite systems. I have been looking into them since then and talked with a rep at one of the vendors today on the phone on their reliability, number of channels, setup, etc. A complete package can be purchased for around $200 - $300 USD.
Does anyone have one of these systems or know anything about them? I'd like to get some honest feedback from people who use/have used these systems. They look like they offer a wide range of programs to suit most anyones needs, and it would sure beat paying the cable company or a paid satellite provider each month for service.
I also wonder why there doesn't seem to be a "market" for them vs. the paid satellite providers? Seems like this would be a good business to start and make a decent income at. Anyone have any insight on why FTA isn't big in the market as well?
Thanks for any feedback. I'll include one of the supplier sites I checked out.
URL #1: http://www.sadoun.com
John , , Age: 39
Just thought I'd mention my experience with getting a PO Box. They did not ask me for simply a utility bill, in fact they refused to accept from me as proof of address some bills from the place I had moved out of just weeks ago. They demanded to see a signed copy of my lease or mortgage agreement! I tried another post office, but got the same story, and as no other post office was close enough to be practical for me, I gave in. Thankfully, I moved out a year later once my lease was up and now my PO Box is a privacy blessing.
John, , Age: 28
I recently moved and went to a post office to open a new PO box; when I got to the counter with my application the clerk said she had to needed to see 2 pieces of ID, and a utility bill or a car insurance statement with a local street address. She commented that it had to be a "real" utility (electric or water) rather than a cell phone or a cable bill.
Is this truly a requirement, or is this a local thing to prevent the snowbirds from snapping up all the boxes? What can I do about this?
Shannon, , Age: 26
Hello Mr Luna,
I've recently moved and rented a new apartment. I'm in the process of furnishing it, and would like to limit the number of databases at my new address. I'll be paying cash and using a pseudonym for the purchase. I lack the human resources to move it myself. Leaving me to pay a third party company the store uses or contacting professional movers. I welcome any additional suggestions.
Thank You.
Jason, , Age: 30
Can a NM LLC be designated as the owner of a collection of precious coins?
Ken, , Age: 61
Was just at the citizens' council on health care web site and i was reading about the harvesting of newborn dna. amazing violation of their privacy. also on the site was a very strong quote "You are not required to sign any form acknowledging your receipt of a health care facility's "Notice of Privacy Practices." Federal law only requires the facility to make a good faith effort to obtain your signature. Contrary to popular belief, signing this form does not provide you with any privacy or other rights...and could be used against you. if you ever declare that your privacy rights have been violated. The form only tells you how many people can have access without your consent."
URL #1: http://www.cchconline.org
Michael, , Age: 25
Car, home, or street, ALWAYS start a recording of the contact. A lot of cell phones now offer voice or even video recording. State the time the contact starts. If possible do not allow the cop to know the recording is being made.
Be calm and polite but keep asking if you are free to go now. Do not open the door to your home. Talk through it, or simply step outside.
Be polite but never allow a voluntary search of your vehicle or home. Did you know that possession of FILL IN THE BLANK was against the law or gives probable cause to search your whole house where you are located? All down side and little upside means avoid contact with the police, and keep it short if unavoidable . . . Can I go now? If you do not learn your Rights you are an idiot.
If you are not calm and polite you are about to be found guilty of Contempt of Cop. This is a crime in all jurisdictions and you WILL be punished.
I spent 13 years as a Peace Officer. When and where I started the profession was respected like firemen are today. I gave up my career because I could no longer be proud of what my profession had become.
I am wondering if anyone has experience using the services of a company called "Earth Class Mail".
Since they require that you complete the postal form and have it notarized, it seems that this service isn't an option for receiving mail in alternate names, but on the face of it, it seems a good option for mis-directing others as to your true geographical location.
Does anyone have good or bad experiences with this company, or other comments?
Linda, , Age: 35
For what NOT to do, just watch a few episodes of the TV show "Cops" or read the episode summaries on their website.
They recently aired an entire episode with nothing but traffic stops.
Everyone that got hauled to jail for drugs or guns or outstanding warrants, had DONE SOMETHING to attract the attention of the police. Speeding, no license plate on the vehicle, or some obvious violation that would get anyone stopped by almost any police officer.
URL #1: http://www.tv.com/cops-1989/show/28229/episode_guide.html?season=20&tag=season_dropdown;dropdown;19
Stan, , Age: 43
One suggestion for Theresa: Get a loud whistle and keep it on a lanyard around your neck or handy in a pocket. Next time you get a telemarketing call, the minute they come on the line, loudly blow the whistle into the mouthpiece. Test this strategy (gently) before you use it to make sure that you can't hear the whistle through the earpiece; if you can, remember to move your ear before you blast the telemarketer!
Linda, , Age: 35
Lately I have been getting telemarketing calls to my cellphone. It was always the same phone number showing up on the call display. So I added that phone number to my phone's contact list, as ".Telemarket" (the dot makes it go to the bottom of my contact list, after the Zs). And now whenever they call, my phone shows the name ".Telemarket" and I know that I don't have to answer it.
So the lesson is, if you confirm the calling number is a telemarketing agency, add them in your contacts... so you can "keep in touch" (or not!).
Zach, , Age: 24
{Edited for length] I read that in the reviews of the book...
- Don't carry guns in your vehicle
- Don't have drugs in your vehicle
- Don't mouth off to cops (actually, shut up when around them)
- Never, ever touch a cop or physically invade his space, etc.
- If a cop sees you, just keep doing what you were doing before he saw you (i.e., the police look for people who change their behavior around the police suddenly).
I disagree with the "don't carry a gun in your car" but that depends on the person, laws, and area" other than that, I can't think of sounder advice. Touching a cop will get you in a world of hurt. Mouthing off will get you about the same. Changing your behavior will certainly get attention. Cops are always looking for people who check them out...and then abruptly change behavior, direction, etc.
John, , Age: 33
I started receiving these HIGHLY annoying telemarketing phone calls on our business cell phone. (A recorded voice instructs you to "Stay on the line for an important message.")
I waited to talk to a live rep and informed them I was on the "do not call" list and furthermore, this was a cell phone and I didn't appreciate them advertising to me on my dime.
She snottily informed me that as of a few days ago, cell phone numbers are now fair game for the telemarketers. (?!)
I know the Verizon clerk/kid will look at me like I'm nuts but is there any way one can set a "spam" filter of sorts on our cell to prevent this horrid intrusion?
Getting a new phone isn't an option...clients need to get a hold of us.
Any suggestions from my privacy minded friends?
[Edited for length] Just ran across this book on Amazon:
"Arrest-Proof Yourself: An Ex-Cop Reveals How Easy It Is for Anyone to Get Arrested, How Even a Single Arrest Could Ruin Your Life, and What to Do If the Police Get in Your Face" (January 2007)
URL #1: http://www.amazon.com/Arrest-Proof-Yourself-Ex-Cop-Reveals-Arrested/dp/1556526377/ref=cm_cr-mr-title
Randy, , Age: 40s
"If you look weird, are a young male, belong to a racial minority group, travel on foot, drive after midnight,... have a prior record, or have friends or family who do any of the above, this book is worth taking a look at."
Mr. Luna, having just read your book "How to be invisible" I would like to tell you abt a hiding place for money that a friend told me he had used. The barrel of a shotgun that was given to him but that he never used. For many years it was never found. He no longer needs to use it. Thank you so much, I had no idea so many people had access to our personal info.
shirley, , Age: 67
An ACLU attorney says "Now innocent people's DNA will be put into this huge CODIS database, and it will be very difficult for them to get it out if they are not charged or convicted of a crime."
13 states already have similar laws.
URL #1: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/dna_collection
Randy, , Age: 40s
My final response to this subject. If you are 51 and your dad was a retired captain, you have no clue what current policing is like. Policing has changed so much in the last 10 years, I don't even consider it the same job...let alone from 20+ years ago.
Either way, exaggerate all you want about being in the same zip code, etc... I see the women beaten black and blue, with broken faces and limbs enough to be comfortable with my actions.
To the readers of this site, if you are going to refuse police to enter your house, don't ever answer the door. This does not guarantee you they won't enter...but I'm sure they will make it very clear if they intend to break it down. This happens all the time when a woman calls 911 and begs for help. When the police show up...no body will answer but they hear voices. The victim is depending on the police to find her/him...and the courts have stated that time and time again. Otherwise, the victim will never get the help the want/need.
Ultimately, I agree with Larry on almost everything other than being taught to be afraid of the public. Recruits are taught to be prepared and on high alert...especially during unknown and high risk situations. Calm, polite, and honest go a LONG way. The average person has no clue how intense the feeling of someone pointing/shooting a gun at you is like. It only takes once and it affects your actions forever.
In some cases, it may be that apples and oranges are being compared. Police work in a quiet town like Carson City, Nevada (where I used to live) bears little relation to experiences in East L.A. or downtown Detroit.
Let's drop this subject and move on to something else, okay? How about experiences using LLCs to sign up for utilities (without using your own name)? I just went through this experience again this past week. Sometimes it appears to be impossible ... but then things may work out.
I just read the article below and thought two things: (1) fighting a ticket is a good way to ruin you privacy so it might better to pay it if you get one; and, (2) be nice to the police officer who stops you, behave the right way, and you might not end up with a ticket you have to fight. I also thought, "Maybe it's just best to follow some of the advice in the article that seems right out of HTBI and avoid being stopped altogether!" Read the article and you'll see what all I mean.
URL #1: http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/how-to-fight-a-speeding-ticket/20080414154509990001?icid=100214839x1200087611x1200002873
Wendy, , Age: 44
[Edited for length] I’m about to renew my driver’s license, and it presently has my home street address as PO Boxes are not allowed. If I am unable to change the address, is my privacy at risk when I later register a car with a NM LLC?
Richard, , Age: 28
I agree permission should be given to police to enter your house only with a warrant. I would very politely tell the officer no if he wanted to come into my home and did not have one. If he had one, he wouldn't spend a lot of time waiting for my answer anyway.
Most people will be stopped by the police at one time or another when driving. Far fewer will be presented with a warrant at their front door. I was thinking primarily about vehicle stops and other street encounters with police when I wrote my last post. I read it again and realized I did not make that clear. Looking back, I should have caught that one because this topic started with a post about police entering a house, not a car stop.
I emphasize friendly and polite, because it is a profoundly useful tool to diffuse tense situations. Relaxed officers are much more level headed than nervous or angry ones. You're more likely to get what you want from a relaxed officer. The quicker they relax, the better off you are. I did not say let the officer do something you clearly know he has no authority to do. It is still very important to be polite as you say no. Obviously, telling an officer he can search/look at your things effectively waives any 4th Amendment based rights you may otherwise have. That is counterproductive.
I was once stopped by an officer who was extremely nervous. After his initial interview of me was over and I could see I had a relaxing affect on him, I very gently asked him if he was nervous. He told me he was, because he had just finished up with a live bank robbery - his first. You never know what kind of officer you're going to get. He must have appreciated the conversation, because he didn't ticket me. He could have easily given me a ticket because I was guilty.
A chilling story in the 4/15/08 Wall Street Journal (Page A3) reports that the Department of Homeland Security is now relying on Los Angeles Police Department beat cops to report the "suspicious activities" of ordinary citizens.
Among those activities that are reported to the LAPD Counterterrorism Bureau (and by inference to DHS):
Drawing diagrams or taking notes, taking measurements, taking pictures or video footage of no apparent aesthetic value (quick, arrest all the makers of music videos or avant garde films!), making or attempting to make suspicious purchases of items like pool chemicals or fertilizer (quick, arrest the pool boy and the gardner!), espousing extremist views, such as verbalizing support for terrorism (and just how DO they identify "terrorism"?).
The LA city attorneys claim this is all perfectly legal: that they already use similar tactics to monitor drug trafficking and prostitution (last I checked, those were actual crimes, whereas drawing, measuring, taking bad photos, and keeping your pool clean and your grass green are not...). And they backed up their claim by saying that they had confirmed the legality of their operations with the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (isn't that like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse?).
And apparently, this is not an isolated program: The Deputy Chief of the LAPD's Counterterrorism Division is "working to convince counterterrorism counterparts from 62 other major US cities that they should adopt a similar system so all could compare information..."
In general, police academies teach recruits to be afraid of the public. There are exceptions, of course, but not many. Some of these recruits are just out of high school when they go into the academy. That means no life experience other than turning in their homework on time. Time, maturity and experience with the public calm a lot of them down - but not all.
Six months after high school graduation, one of these recruits may be the young man who is pulling you over for a broken taillight. Ever argue with a 21 year old (still a teenager in my view) teenager who can lock you up and bring you before a judge? If you are calm and friendly, he will follow your lead.
Police Officers are generally nervous when they pull you over or knock on your door because they cannot see behind that door and they just don't know what they are going to get - a polite motorist/resident or a bullet - every single time. They do their best to hide that nervousness. For many officers, hiding their own tension is accomplished by making YOU as nervous as possible. This makes them feel as though they have the upper hand with you.
The name of the game with the police is calm and friendly, yes, even when they are not - no officer can argue with that. If you cannot be calm and friendly it is time to look at yourself and ask yourself why not. Cops are human beings first, and police officers second, whether they like it that way or not.
Every police department is different, as is every officer. NO OFFICER CAN ARGUE WITH CALM AND FRIENDLY. Very few even want to. Yes, you can resist and trumpet your constitutional rights. Remember, those rights are ultimately decided in a courtroom ( before or after your attorney sends you his bill), not in your interaction with the officer. Remember, life is a game. If you resist an officer, even verbally, your time and attention will instantly be spent primarily with the result of that resistance - in a courtroom with a judge.
"If they do have a warrant," he says, "be smart, safe and do as they request (or should I say order). They are coming in anyway, so no sense having to fix the door they break down ... BTW, I could not agree more with Rick (#4089) and his thoughts and experiences with the police. There are obviously some good people who are cops. However, when their feet hit the streets, their training WILL take over, and that training will cause even the best intentions of the police to not act in the most beneficial way for the average American."
Do I agree with the foregoing? The answer is a very firm maybe, depending on the circumstances.
Wow, I had an interesting experience. I drive a crown victoria with a CB antenna on the trunk, and I was stopped this morning by a sheriff's deputy. He said he thought I was driving a vehicle resembling a law enforcement vehicle.
One of his first questions was who owns the vehicle, and I said "my company owns it", he asked who owns the company, I said "I do" (it's a NM LLC). He seemed to have a lot of trouble wrapping his brain around the whole thing. I explained that it was incorporated in NM due to easy incorporation laws and the alaska address was an accountant's office. I even explained that it was all set up pursuant to a book I'd read, and that it wasn't registered in my name to shield me from frivolous lawsuits, and that everything was within the law.
He asked why it was registered in this state, and I said because it's here for at least 6 months. I'm surprised he didn't ask why my license address was in a city 75 miles away. 5 more cop cars showed up. Then he said he thought it was obtaining property under false pretenses, and double-checked the registration & insurance. They took photos of the car and asked me for permission to search, which I calmly refused, saying that I take my 4th amendment rights very seriously.
When I was asked to step out I asked him politely to repeat why I was stopped, and then recited to him the laws regarding impersonation (in NC it's having a red or blue light, coloration, insignia, or lettering resembling a cop car) which I had researched and memorized before buying the car, because I wanted to make sure I didn't get in trouble. He said what really got his attention was seeing "something shiny" on my chest, which was actually my cellphone on my seatbelt. I was frisked for weapons and was asked several times if I had badges or weapons, which I didn't.
Altogether the whole scene took 45 minutes. The deputy handed back my papers and said I was skating just within the law, and while I couldn't be arrested I was still inviting trouble and would likely continue to get hassled if I didn't change the car's appearance. While it was kind of fun to play the traffic stop game, I think I'll make some changes to the car to avoid future incidents.
During the whole thing I was very calm and polite, but not meek or groveling. This in turn made everyone else at the scene calm and even-tempered, but my knowledge of the law probably gave the impression that I was not to be bullied.
I am a victim of housing discrimination.
I submitted a complaint to Dept of Housing and Urban Development and they turned the investigation to the County Commission of Human Rights; I signed their paperwork; they said if the case proceeds a civil suit will be filed ; would it completely compromise any privacy I have left ?
PAT, , Age: 40
First let me begin by saying that I have nothing against the police. I have worked in the legal field for some time now and have assisted in achieving a substantial civil verdict for a State Trooper; have assisted attorneys in representing officer unions throughout the state; and have helped defend police officers against brutality claims.
Having said that, there is a huge disparity between what the police want you to believe they can do and what they actually can do.
Specifically, domestic violence somewhere in the building=probable cause or reasonable suspicion to search every apt., highly unlikely. Do they want you to believe the have the ability to search your apt., absolutely.
Do they often present you with the either/or situation hoping, like most people, that you don't understand the limits of police power, absolutely.
Now here is the issue, if you resist the power, even if there is no real power, they will simply escalate, that is what they are taught to do. So rule no. 1 avoid contact as much as possible. If you have contact deterimine if the point is really worth argueing about. Do you bring more attention to yourself by sticking up for your rights or by simply letting this battle go? I think it is a case by case choice.
[Edited] On #4086: Stop watching so much TV? What does that have to do with anything? My father-in-law is a retired police captain, so I get a tremendous amount of information from him on just exactly how police think. I have also been on many ride-a-longs in my time and have witnessed officers violating people's rights without them ever knowing it.
On #4087: Just because an officer doesn't know where a call originates, it doesn't give him the right to "investigate" anybody in the same zip code for the sake of not getting sued. If someone doesn't open the door, there can be no reasonable suspicion/probable cause. The condition of a home that an officer might enter has absolutely no bearing on this subject. Fishing expedition? That is exactly what officer's are trained to do! Find the crime if at all possible.
Finally, the most telling statement from John: "It sounds like there was very LITTLE inconvenience for the person involved."
They hadn't broken any laws but were being "investigated" by the police and had to prove their innocence anyway. What about their rights! Sounds like "your papers please" to me. This is the militaristic-type of thinking that permeates our police departments today. All for the greater good of society ... or so we are being told. Don't open the door when the police knock unless they have warrant! Nothing good will ever come of it!
Passing by all your stereotypes and gross generalizations...I'd like to point out that most of local law enforcement has very little interest in the "state." As an example my department (the unionized members...not the govt entity) has been suing the city/state for years now regarding where city employees are allowed to live. In my opinion, most officers feel animosity towards the city/state in which they work for. (books such as, "I love a Cop") illustrate this point very clearly.
On a personal note, stop watching so much TV. I work in a dept with ~1100 sworn officers. I am extremely proud of how our community is treated and the level of professionalism that is shown to the citizens.
Try scheduling a ride-along. Almost every dept in the country allows citizens to ride with the police and see first hand what the job entails.
1.) Officers often have NO CLUE where a call originates from (cell phones)...nor do complainants have exact addresses for the alleged crime (screaming help and call the police in an apt. building). Officers are legally obligated to "investigate" in these situations. Officers get sued everyday for "not investigating." (ie. the Tracey Thurman story)
2.) No search warrant is needed if there is reasonable suspicion/probable cause (they are not the same thing) when crime is taking/took place...also refer to "exigent circumstances."
3.) Do you really think an officer is on a "fishing expedition?" Do you you think officers enjoy entering filthy, roach infested, strangers homes where they don't know who is a threat or where the next weapon is hiding? It sounds like there was very LITTLE inconvenience for the person(s) involved. The officers were probably there less than 5-10 minutes and investigated long enough to determine if the supposed crime had occurred.
And for your own edification, I've never met a true DV victim who didn't immediately close the door in my face if the abuser was present. This would just heighten my sense of concern. Go to wikipedia and read the cycle of abuse...or better yet, read some of the thousands of cases or books on the issue. Either way, if you assume you know what another person's intentions are/were, you are bound to be wrong most of the time.
As a police officer, I've learned I am moderately good at describing behavior. I've also learned I have virtually no ability to accurately attribute motive to observed behavior. I try to keep this in mind when dealing with people.
Check out the link...the most common response from law enforcement was to do almost nothing. It's only after years of public pressure that LE has been forced to do more thorough investigations with DV incidents. Regardless, saying officers are on fishing expeditions in DV investigations reeks of ignorance. I've never met an officer yet who didn't want to run screaming in the opposite direction.
URL #1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence
A follow-up to Mike(#4084):
... There is no requirement to even open the door when the police knock, unless they have a warrant. If they really want to talk to you they will leave a note addressed to the person who they are looking for. You then can call at your convenience and make contact via phone, rather than face to face. Good for privacy and much easier to do.
The police have been taught to be intimitating in face to face encounters to get what they want. This causes many people who don't know their rights to unkowingly to give them up. If the police have bad news, they will get it to you one way or the other. The police are here "to protect and serve" the state's interest, not the good citizens of America.
If you don't open the door, it makes the police mad as hell, but from a privacy standpoint open the door and see how much privacy you have.
P.S. When the police knock, you can also call the police department right then and ask for the highest ranked officer in charge. Very easy to explain that you are afraid of the police (or any other story that suits you) and will only deal with them through your attorney in order to protect your rights.
Howard , , Age: 51
Let me get this straight. The police knocked on your girlfriend's door because of domestic violence - somewhere in the complex(!) - and then told her they were going to search the apartment? Talk about a fishing expedition! Didn't the police know which apartment the incident allegedly occurred in? Why didn't your girlfriend just say "Sorry, you woke me up, I'm fine, good night" and close the door? When they said they were going to search, why didn't she ask to see the search warrant? As we've discussed before, cooperation with the police is generally *not* required!
Mike, , Age: 47
Daniel- Your comment re: a credit freeze reminded me of a comment I heard Dave Ramsey make on his radio show.
He says frequently businesses don't even run credit checks so the credit freeze can give a false sense of security. He commented that this is how credit cards get issued to dead people and dogs.
The wisdom in HTBI is truly the only way to take matters into your own hands and guard your privacy.
Theresa, , Age: 43
Wendy, To put a house in a trust it would have to be deeded to the Trustee of the trust. You should be careful if you do this because the Trustee will be the owner of the property and be able to sell it without your permission.
Roger, , Age: 58
I have been reading the posts about homeowners insurance and I am wondering about auto insurance. Being the victim of identity theft, I had my credit reoprts frozen several years ago. My local hospital notified me last week that my personal information may have been sold (it was all over the news here last week). I want to purchase auto insurance and want to know if anyone of your readers know of insurers that do not check credit reports? I am too paranoid to un-freeze them even for five minutes.
daniel, , Age: 50
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